Follow the money-Scripture Central, M2C and SITH

M2C and SITH continue to be cited as among the top reasons why people lose their faith in the Restoration. This is obvious when leading LDS scholars teach that Joseph and Oliver deliberately misled everyone about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. 

Few if any people join the Church and remain active because of the theories of scholars, but when the scholars repudiate the teachings of the prophets, they cause people to question their faith. 

People often ask how and why so many LDS scholars and their followers continue to promote M2C and SITH. 

It's an easy answer: just follow the money. 

It's basically the same reason why Americans spend more on health care than any other country, with the worst medical outcomes of any developed country, as we'll see below. The solution for the health care outcomes is relatively easy, except that the solution impinges on big corporate interests who fund the politicians.

Likewise, the tragedy is that Scripture Central could easily solve this problem by simply 

(i) acknowledging the teachings of the prophets and 

(ii) acknowledging the evidence that corroborates those teachings and

(iii) encouraging Latter-day Saints and their friends to make informed decisions.

But so far, Scripture Central continues to refuse to do these three things.

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Scripture Central raises and spends millions of dollars annually. No other LDS academic organization comes close.

To participate with Scripture Central as management, as an employee, as a volunteer, as a content creator, or in any other way, you must comply with the Scripture Central's position on the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. 

This means you must agree to repudiate the teachings of the prophets about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon; i.e., you must believe, or at least promote, 

(i) the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory (M2C) of the setting of the Book of Mormon, and 

(ii) the stone-in-the-hat (SITH) explanation for the origin of the Book of Mormon.

In fact, to participate with Scripture Central, you can't even teach what the prophets have taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon because both M2C and SITH expressly and explicitly repudiate the teachings of the prophets about Cumorah/Ramah and the Urim and Thummim. 

We've documented numerous examples of this from Tyler Griffin and others, but in coming days we'll document even more.

Because Scripture Central controls the money, if you want to be an LDS scholar in the present world, you have to comply with--and promote--SITH and M2C.

Scripture Central hosts and coordinates and promotes specific social media influencers, on the condition that they in turn promote M2C and SITH.

Scripture Central funds independent researchers, on the condition that they in turn promote M2C and SITH.

Although much of their content is published anonymously, this list of their "content creators" consists exclusively of people who promote M2C and SITH.

(click to enlarge)

Think about this: for all of 2024, when Come Follow Me focused on the Book of Mormon, these "content creators" generated numerous articles, podcasts, videos, and other content, but not one of them ever once quoted what Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon.

Instead, they promoted their own theories and quoted and cited one another. It's amazing, but not surprising if you follow the money.

(In case I missed an example, let me know so I can correct this post. Email me at lostzarahemla@gmail.com).

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Now, here's the analogy to the US health care system:

RFK Jr. explaining the US health care system

Camus

@newstart_2024

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.: "Today, over 100 members of Congress support a bill to fund Ozempic with Medicare at $1,500 a month. Most of these members have taken money from the manufacturer of that product, a European company called Novo Nordisk. As everyone knows, once a drug is approved for Medicare, it goes to Medicaid." "And there is a push to recommend Ozempic for Americans as young as six over a condition, obesity, that is completely preventable and barely even existed 100 years ago. Since 74% of Americans are obese, the cost of all of them, if they take their Ozempic prescriptions, will be $3 trillion a year. This is a drug that has made Novo Nordisk the biggest company in Europe." "It's a Danish company, but the Danish government does not recommend it. It recommends a change in diet to treat obesity and exercise. Virtually Novo Nordisk's entire value is based upon its projections of what Ozempic is going to sell to Americans. For half the price of Ozempic, we could purchase regeneratively raised organic agriculture, organic food for every American three meals a day and gym membership for every obese American." "Why are members of Congress doing the bidding of this Danish company instead of standing up for American farmers and children? Because Novo Nordisk is one of the largest funders of medical research, the media and politicians and the medical schools all go along with them."

https://x.com/newstart_2024/status/1884616729289978182

The narrow neck of land found!

Yesterday I visited an actual narrow neck of land that connects a land northward and a land southward that are surrounded by water in an island of the sea.

Looking southward:

(click to enlarge)

A wide-angle shot shows how narrow the neck is. It could be described as a narrow neck, a narrow passage, or even a small neck of land.

Looking northward, the neck expands into a large island.

On the map it's easy to see the land northward and southward connected by the narrow neck.

To get to Bruny Island we took a ferry from Kettering, Tasmania.

Obviously I don't think this is the land of the Book of Mormon, but it makes the point that once people reject the teachings of the prophets, the way the management and scholars at Scripture Central do, there is no principled limit on the possible settings of the Book of Mormon.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of locations around the world that could fit the description in the Book of Mormon.

That's why it is essential for Latter-day Saints to start by accepting the teachings of the prophets about the New York Cumorah/Ramah. Even when we have the Cumorah pin in the map, there are numerous plausible scenarios, but at least they corroborate the teachings of the prophets.

Bruny Island, south of Hobart

Scripture Central Peer Reviews

There is so much misinformation and disinformation pouring out of Scripture Central lately that we're starting a new blog to provide peer reviews of their content.

https://scripturecentralpeerreviews.blogspot.com/

Here's the first entry.

https://scripturecentralpeerreviews.blogspot.com/2025/01/kno-why-489-where-is-hill-cumorah.html

We'll have peer reviews of the Kno-Why articles, youtube and other videos, and other content.

Feel free to share widely!

Ancient Heartland rap

Fun song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI3odwG5Ww8

Thank you Brant Gardner, again

I posted a peer review of Brant's latest two books. Overall I thought they were well done and useful, but in some respects manipulative and misleading because of Brant's M2C convictions.

https://interpreterpeerreviews.blogspot.com/2025/01/peer-review-of-brant-gardners-latest.html

Brant explains but does not resolve the obvious problem that the Title Page was on the last leaf of the plates. This means there were no additional plates (such as the plates of Nephi, commonly referred to as the "small plates." 

This means that Joseph obtained the "small plates" separately from the abridged plates that Moroni put in the stone box, as anyone can see from D&C 9 and 10. David Whitmer reported that he encountered the messenger who had the abridged plates. This was when he he was with Joseph and Oliver, traveling from Harmony to Fayette. He offered the messenger a ride, but the messenger declined, saying he was "going to Cumorah."

This used to be a well-known account in the Church. It was in my seminar manual. But the M2Cers have managed to "de-correlate" that account because it is solid evidence that Cumorah/Ramah, including the repository of Nephite records, is in New York. 

One solution Brant proposes is that Joseph didn't even know he was translating the small plates!

Here's an excerpt from my peer reviews (Brant's original in blue, my comments in red).

"it may not have been until Joseph was translating 1 Nephi 9 that he realized that he was now translating a completely separate record from the one Mormon had based his history on."

This speculation by Brant ignores the between D&C 9 and 10. It assumes that Joseph wasn’t really reading from the plates, contrary to Brant’s explanation of the translation. If Joseph didn’t know he was translating “the plates of Nephi” instead of the abridgment by Mormon/Moroni, then how did he know whether he was obeying the Lord’s instructions? For that matter, why would the Lord specify what plates he should translate? And why would Joseph and Oliver even think of re-translating the book of Lehi if they still had a stack of untranslated plates after the Book of Moroni and the Title Page?

That Brant ignores these questions may be explained by his omission of David Whitmer’s explanation that the messenger who took the abridged plates from Joseph in Harmony declined David’s offer of a ride to Fayette because he was “going to Cumorah.”

(For trip to Fayette references, see https://www.mobom.org/trip-to-fayette-references)

Obviously, the Cumorah problem looms large in this narrative.

It continues to amaze us how the M2Cers completely ignore the evidence of the New York Cumorah/Ramah. To Brant's credit, he merely omitted the evidence. 

Jack Welch not only omitted the evidence, but he falsified the account in his infamous Opening the Heavens entry.

https://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2017/12/opening-heavens-but-censoring-history.html 

I continually hope that Scripture Central will, at some point, be open and transparent about all of this. So far, they've shown zero interest in helping people make informed decisions.

Tyler Griffin's answers

Scripture Central announced some changes in their offerings in 2025.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEX_qfuqe0R/?igsh=MXhyazV0ZTk4aWVrNQ%3D%3D

One change is Tyler Griffin's new project:

Tyler Griffin has decided to start a video series on the Scripture Central YouTube channel delving into the most common questions investigators ask the missionaries. It will hopefully be a great resource for missionaries and friends curious about the faith alike.

Tyler is awesome. He's highly educated and experienced, he's effective, he's enthusiastic, and he's a great guy. 

Like Tyler, we all agree that the main purpose of the Book of Mormon is to convince people that Jesus is the Christ. Anything that encourages people to read and study the Book of Mormon will help fulfill that purpose. Surely Tyler's set of answers will be useful and inspirational for many people.

Except for his answers about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. 

Like every other post on this blog, this one is intended as a suggestion for improvement, a move toward transparency and accommodation of multiple working hypotheses, all in the pursuit of clarity, charity and understanding.

We're fine with Tyler teaching whatever he wants. We continue to hope that he will acknowledge that there are other faithful interpretations and that he will inform his students, readers, viewers and listeners about those alternatives.

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The first two questions that 97.6% of new readers of the Book of Mormon have is "Where did this book come from?" (origin) and "Where did these events take place?" (setting)

Tyler's answer to the first question presumably consists of Scripture Central's stone-in-the-hat (SITH) explanation, including Royal Skousen's obvious and inevitable SITH conclusion that Joseph and Oliver intentionally misled everyone about the translation.

That's obviously problematic for those of us who still believe what Joseph and Oliver claimed, along with the evidence that corroborates their claims.

But that's not the only attack on the credibility of Joseph and Oliver from Tyler and Scripture Central.

Let's focus on the second question people ask: "Where did these events take place?"

Tyler's answer will undoubtedly consist of Scripture Central's Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory (M2C) which consists of three elements:

1. There are two main locations of Book of Mormon events: the Old World of Jerusalem/Israel and the Arabian peninsula, and the New World of the Americas. Most Latter-day Saints agree with this.

2. Some Old World locations are known, such as Jerusalem, while locations of others are less certain but probable, such as "Bountiful," the place from which Lehi sailed, being in Salalah, Oman, or another site along the coast. Most Latter-day Saints agree with this.

3. No New World locations are known, so we use an imaginary map to explain the Book of Mormon, pursuant to these principles. 

3a. The prophets were wrong about the hill Cumorah/Ramah in New York. 

3b. The prophets were correct about "the Americas."

3c. The best way to understand the book of Mormon is by using an imaginary (fantasy) map.

Some Latter-day Saints agree with this, but many do not.

Analysis.

The text of the Book of Mormon doesn't mention any modern geographical locations. Not even America. 

Joseph found the plates in New York, which suggests that the events took place in New York, but the text itself doesn't say that. Based on the text alone, the events could have taken place anywhere in the world, which is why some have proposed sites in Africa and Asia.

Let's look at the three parts of element 3.

3.a. Cumorah. 

The historical record gives us extrinsic insight into the setting of the Book of Mormon events. This includes not only Joseph Smith's own explanation that he learned about Cumorah before he got the plates (D&C 128:20) but his mother's explanation that Moroni told Joseph the first time they met that the plates were in the Hill Cumorah near their house, and that Joseph referred to the hill as Cumorah before he ever obtained the plates.

We have Moroni's explanation to Joseph that the history was "written and deposited not far from" Joseph's house, which means Mormon and Moroni both wrote the record in the vicinity of Palmyra. 

We have Oliver Cowdery's declaration that it is a fact that the hill in New York is the very hill Cumorah/Ramah mentioned in the text. Oliver was Assistant President of the Church when he made that formal declaration, and he did so in collaboration with Joseph Smith, who not only had the declaration copied into his own history, but had it republished for all Latter-day Saints to read and understand, including in the Times and Seasons, the Gospel Reflector, the Millennial Star, and The Prophet (a New York-based newspaper edited by his brother William). Later in Utah, it was republished in the Improvement Era.

We have explicit statements from Joseph's successors in Church leadership that corroborate the New York Cumorah, including testimony from members of the First Presidency speaking in General Conference. 

These and more references are found here: https://www.mobom.org/church-history-issues

But along with everyone else at Scripture Central, Tyler explicitly rejects and repudiates all of these teachings about the New York Cumorah. That's why he created his fantasy map, which we'll discuss below.

This leads to part 3.b.

3.b. The Americas

Despite rejecting the New York Cumorah, Tyler and Scripture Central have concluded that the events took place in the Americas, based on the teachings of the prophets. But the same prophets who taught the events took place in America also taught Cumorah was in New York. How do we explain this inconsistency?

One rationale for rejecting the New York Cumorah is the assertion that there was no revelation about Cumorah. This, despite D&C 128:20 and the historical record about Moroni revealing the name Cumorah to Joseph Smith and the messenger Nephi telling David Whitmer about Cumorah. Beyond these known revelations, we have the reported experience of  Joseph and Oliver having visited Mormon's repository of records in the hill, etc.

But let's follow the logic where it leads. 

If there was no revelation about Cumorah (and no personal experience with Cumorah), there was also no revelation about America, the American continent, the Western Hemisphere, etc. No one has cited any revelation about the Americas, apart from what Joseph and Oliver taught in the first place.

The knowledge that the events took place in America arose from Moroni's explanation to Joseph about Cumorah in the first place; i.e., that the history was written and deposited not far from Joseph's home, and that it "gave a history of the aborigenes [sic] of this country." In the Wentworth letter, Joseph even explained that Lehi's descendants "are the Indians that now inhabit this country," thereby correcting Orson Pratt's speculation about Central America.  

https://www.mobom.org/wentworth-orson-pratt

Obviously, the M2C explanation--rejecting what the prophets said about Cumorah but accepting what they said about the Americas, which is derived from the fact that Cumorah is in New York--is irrational. 

That irrationality doesn't mean there is a problem with Tyler offering this inconsistency as one of multiple working hypotheses. The problem is he doesn't also offer the alternative evidence and interpretations that corroborate the teachings of the prophets. IOW, he makes an irrational argument but doesn't tell people about a rational interpretation.

3.c. The imaginary map.

Although the location of Cumorah/Ramah in New York is well established in the historical record, that does not determine the location of any other events in the Book of Mormon. The New York Cumorah/Ramah accommodates a wide range of possibilities, ranging from a limited geography around New York all the way to the hemispheric setting that was favored by some early Church members. 

The variety of possibilities, combined with the destruction of ancient sites and geological changes, explains why Church leaders have never identified any other Book of Mormon sites, apart from D&C 125, which is ambiguous, some second-hand accounts regarding Manti and a few other places, and Joseph Smith's identification of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois as the "plains of the Nephites." 

This is reflected in the Gospel Topics entry on Book of Mormon Geography, which focuses on geography theories. The entry says nothing about Cumorah/Ramah, but correctly points out that there are numerous theories about the setting of the Book of Mormon, none of which have prophetic authority. 

The omission of Cumorah/Ramah from that entry is significant because it avoids the direct and explicit repudiation of the teachings of the prophets.

But Scripture Central generally, and Tyler Griffin specifically, don't follow that example. Instead, they insist the prophets were wrong about Cumorah. Scripture Central puts Cumorah/Ramah in southern Mexico to make their geography theory work. Tyler puts it in the equivalent position on his fantasy map.

Tyler's map with his Cumorah circled

We can all see that Scripture Central and Tyler Griffin persist in trying to persuade Latter-day Saints (and their friends) to reject what Joseph and Oliver taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon, all to promote their private speculations and theories about the Mesoamerican setting.

With that foundation, does it matter much how Tyler answers the other questions people ask?

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I write all of this in my ongoing hope that Scripture Central will someday abandon its dogmatic repudiation of the teachings of the prophets about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon and at least acknowledge and accommodate alternative faithful evidence and interpretations so Latter-day Saints can make informed decisions.

Facts vs assumptions

Everyone involved with the study of the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon owes it to fellow Latter-day Saints, and the world as a whole, to 

(i) clarify their unity regarding the facts, and

(ii) clarify their respective assumptions, inferences and theories.

Then everyone can make informed decisions without any contention.

Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?

Unity in diversity

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The distinction between facts and assumptions explains the main difference between 

(i) the M2Cers at Scripture Central, FAIRLDS, the Interpreter, etc. 

and 

(ii) those Latter-day Saints who still believe what the prophets have taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon (let's call them Heartlanders even though they have multiple working hypotheses and don't work for any organizations like the M2Cers). 

Once everyone recognizes the distinction between Facts and Assumptions (along with inferences, theories, and hypotheses), we can all see clearly, with charity and understanding, and thereby make informed decisions in openness and transparency. 

This process eliminates contention because it eliminates the compulsion to convince others. Everyone can freely reach their own conclusions and understand why others reach different conclusions. We can all enjoy unity in diversity.

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Facts. M2Cers and Heartlanders agree that there is a clear, unambiguous set of facts about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon consisting of historical documents that contain direct statements from Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, their contemporaries and their successors in Church leadership. We can all read the documents for ourselves in the Joseph Smith Papers and other sources. 

Key point: No one disagrees about the existence of these facts. 

Assumptions. The facts--the existence of a document and its contents--do not determine anyone's beliefs. Instead, assumptions about those facts lead to the various theories people develop, the main assumptions being whether or not the contents are reliable, accurate, trustworthy, etc.

This is why, even though M2Cers and Heartlanders agree about the facts, they derive quite different theories from the identical facts. IOW, disagreements between M2Cers and Heartlanders arise from their assumptions and inferences about those facts, not from the facts per se.

For example, M2Cers assume that when Oliver Cowdery declared it was a fact that the hill in New York is the Hill Cumorah/Ramah of the Book of Mormon, he was merely speculating and was wrong. They assume that Lucy Mack Smith falsely reported that the first time he appeared to Joseph Smith, Moroni identified the location of the plates as the Hill of Cumorah. They assume that D&C 128:20 reflects Joseph's adoption of this false narrative, and so on.

Heartlanders, by contrast, assume that Oliver, Lucy, Joseph and others were relating the truth.

This difference in assumptions should be crystal clear for everyone to see. 

Those who object to transparency should question their motivations, and it should be clear to everyone who favors transparency and who opposes it.

What drives assumptions. People generally make assumptions to confirm their biases. 

Using Oliver as an example, M2Cers and Heartlanders alike assume the veracity of Oliver's testimony about the existence of the plates and the Urim and Thummim, the restoration of the Priesthood, and the restoration of important keys for missionary and temple work. 

Where they differ is in their assumptions about Oliver's statements about the hill Cumorah/Ramah. (The SITH issue is similar.)

M2Cers assume that Oliver's statement of fact was actually false because they have convinced themselves that the hill in New York is too far from the Mesoamerican setting they have assumed and therefore cannot be the Hill Cumorah/Ramah of the Book of Mormon.

Heartlanders assume that Oliver told the truth about Cumorah/Ramah because he had good reason to know and because they accept Oliver's testimony about the other events. 

Based on those two different assumptions, both groups follow the same systematic approach toward the text and extrinsic evidence:

The text. M2Cers and Heartlanders alike make assumptions about the text of the Book of Mormon and draw inferences (interpretations) that corroborate their respective assumptions about the veracity and reliability of the contents of the historical documents regarding Cumorah.

Extrinsic evidence. M2Cers and Heartlanders alike appeal to extrinsic evidence (archaeology, anthropology, geology, geography, etc.) to corroborate their respective assumptions.

Usually the debates on the setting of the Book of Mormon focus on the respective interpretations and extrinsic evidence, which is a red herring fallacy. It is axiomatic that everyone will find ways to confirm their biases.

The different biases arise from different assumptions about the facts. Secondary differences (interpretations and extrinsic evidence) flow from the different assumptions.

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At the present time, M2Cers and Heartlanders also differ in their approaches to these issues. 

Heartlanders welcome and encourage transparent comparisons between the two sets of assumptions, inferences, and theories.

M2Cers (at least those who manage Scripture Central, FAIRLDS, and the Interpreter) discourage and resist transparent comparisons between the two sets of assumptions, inferences, and theories.

Impartial observers can easily see which approach is more effective at enabling people to make informed decisions.

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To repeat, this is why everyone involved with the study of the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon owes it to fellow Latter-day Saints, and the world as a whole, to 

(i) clarify their unity regarding the facts, and

(ii) clarify their respective assumptions, inferences and theories.

Then everyone can make informed decisions without any contention.

Why is this so difficult?