We should be grateful...

We're fine with people believing whatever they want about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon, but we also seek clarity, charity and understanding.

Clarity is the hard part, apparently.

While we charitably assume everyone is acting in good faith, and we seek to understand others' beliefs while not focusing on changing anyone's mind, the pursuit of clarity requires us to lay out the facts.

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Some LDS scholars, particularly those at Scripture Central and the Interpreter Foundation, lament that God did not give us enough information about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. "If only God had given us more" they say.

But we should be grateful for what we have already received, and then the Lord will have more to give us.

D. Todd Christofferson

@ChristoffDTodd

·

51m

The Lord has more to give for those who feel and express gratitude for what they have already received. Let us be grateful and express that gratitude to Him constantly.

https://x.com/ChristoffDTodd/status/1857072245400580512 

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Many Latter-day Saints do feel and express gratitude for what we have already received from the Lord through the prophets regarding the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. 

We believe He has more to give.

But our most influential scholars, particularly those who founded and currently manage Scripture Central and the Interpreter Foundation, are not grateful. Instead, they reject, resent, and repudiate what the Lord has given us.

Consequently, like blind guides they fumble around through Central America, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

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Regarding the origin of the Book of Mormon:

Responding to ongoing confusion about the translation, Joseph Smith answered the question  in the Elders Journal in 1838.

Question 4th. How, and where did you obtain the Book of Mormon?

Answer. Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from whence the Book of Mormon   was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me and told me where they were and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them and the Urim and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates and thus came the Book of Mormon.

(Elders’ Journal I.3:42 ¶20–43 ¶1)

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/elders-journal-july-1838/11 

With the specific assistance of Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery wrote a detailed description of Moroni's visit in 1835.

He [Moroni] said this history was written and deposited not far from that place, and that it was our brother’s privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/68

Regarding the setting of the Book of Mormon:

President Oliver Cowdery:

here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed. By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the book of Mormon (Mormon 6) you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah....

In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites... From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope or doubt. 

This hill, by the Jaredites, was called Ramah: by it, or around it pitched the famous army of Coriantumr their tents.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90

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38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

(Doctrine and Covenants 1:38)

Musk on censorship

Good point that reminds me of Scripture Central's editorial approach, which is to censor those Latter-day Saints who still believe what the prophets have taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon.

Elon Musk

@elonmusk

·

2h

Exactly

if you have to censor opposing viewpoints to maintain control (like reddit does), it just means you and your viewpoints are weak and cannot hold up to scrutiny

 

Veterans Day at Cumorah

From the Joseph Smith Papers:

I think I am justified in saying that this is the highest hill for some distance round, and I am certain that its appearance, as it rises so suddenly from a plain on the north, must attract the notice of the traveller as he passes by.

At about one mile west rises another ridge of less height, running parallel with the former, leaving a beautiful vale between. The soil is of the first quality for the country, and under a state of cultivation, which gives a prospect at once imposing, when one reflects on the fact, that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed.

By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the book of Mormon (Mormon 6) you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah....

In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites—once so highly favored of the Lord, but at that time in darkness, doomed to suffer extermination by the hand of their barbarous and uncivilized brethren. From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope or doubt.

[Mormon] by divine appointment, abridged from those records, in his own style and language, a short account of the more important and prominent items, from the days of Lehi to his own time, after which he deposited, as he says, on the 529th page, all the records in this same hill, Cumorah and after gave his small record to his son Moroni, who, as appears from the same, finished, after witnessing the extinction of his people as a nation.

It was not the wicked who overcame the righteous; far from this: it was the wicked against the wicked, and by the wicked the wicked were punished....

This hill, by the Jaredites, was called Ramah: by it, or around it pitched the famous army of Coriantumr their tents. (Ether 15:11) Coriantumr was the last king of the Jaredites The opposing army were to the west, and in this same valley, and near by, from day to day, did that mighty race spill their blood, in wrath, contending, as it were, brother against brother, and father, against son. In this same spot, in full view from the top of this same hill, one may gaze with astonishment upon the ground which was twice covered with the dead and dying of our fellow men. Here may be seen where once sunk to nought the pride and strength of two mighty nations

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90

November update on various blogs

Next week we'll focus on Cumorah. For now, here are some other posts:

Post-election conversations:

https://nomorecontention.blogspot.com/2024/11/post-election-reaction.html

Ancient America in Alabama:

https://www.lettervii.com/2024/11/florence-mound-alabama.html

More fun with SITH:

https://funwithsith.blogspot.com/2024/10/now-urim-and-thummim-is-forbidden.html

Updated analysis of Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Translation:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2022/09/analysis-gospel-topics-essay-on-book-of.html

More fun with M2C:

https://funwithm2c.blogspot.com/2024/10/john-sorenson-watches-witless-sci-fi.html

Cumorah hoax

By popular demand, we'll be discussing the M2C Cumorah hoax for the next few days.

Everything is awesome

 

Trump 2016: A New Hope

Trump 2020: The Empire Strikes Back Trump 2024: Return of the Jedi

VOTE today

If you're an American and you haven't already voted today, be sure to vote!

I rarely if ever discuss politics on this blog. Unlike many others, I don't think the discussion about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon has anything to do with American politics.

I post political stuff here:

https://rationalpoliticalpositions.blogspot.com/

However, thousands of people read this blog and I think that, for Americans, voting is a civic duty that everyone should take seriously.

Much of the political dialog in the US is a distraction from the core issues and policies that affect us all on a daily basis. Many of these policies directly implicate the progress of people individually, society generally, and the advancement of the Restoration specifically. 

I also find it fascinating to see how so many people are polarized because of the media they consume. Democrats and Republicans both promote narratives based on fake news, hoaxes, and innuendo, all of which succeed to the extent that the consumers of their narratives are unaware of relevant facts and are thus unable to make informed decisions.

I'm fine with people believing whatever they want, of course. I just encourage people to make informed decisions.

The political divisions in the US are similar to the divisions among Latter-day Saints regarding the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. Those who promote a particular agenda typically seek to control their followers by denying them relevant facts, conflating assumptions with facts, etc. That's why I'd like to see politicians, as well as LDS intellectuals, apply the FAITH model of analysis instead of resorting to misleading tactics to promote their respective agendas.

https://nomorecontention.blogspot.com/p/the-faith-model-of-analysis.html

And that's why I seek clarity, charity and understanding in the pursuit of no more contention, whereby we can all make informed decisions while recognizing multiple working hypotheses.

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JD Vance: “No matter who wins, half the country, as you said, is gonna be, at least partially disappointed.”

“We are all fundamentally on the same team however we voted.” “If you vote the wrong way, in my view, I'm still gonna love you. I'm still gonna treat you as a fellow citizen.“ “If I am lucky enough to be your vice president, I'm gonna fight far hard for your dreams and for your family over the next 4 years.”

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I posted the following on FB the other day and got a variety of responses, so I thought I might as well post it here, too, if only to generate a discussion.

I don't talk about politics on Facebook, but I'm fascinated that this election is supposedly close. I'm optimistic that we're about to enter the Golden Age, with these elements:

- Make America Healthy Again with RFK Jr. solving the problems of abuse and corruption at the FDA, NIH, USDA, etc., including the regulatory capture problems in the pharma and food industries.

- DOGE (Dept. of Government Efficiency) with Elon Musk, Ron Paul, and others reorganizing the federal government to make it effective, efficient, and responsive to voters.

- Secure borders with plentiful legal immigration of people who want to be Americans and want to contribute positively.

- Dismantling of the military-industrial complex that promotes wars around the world.

- Reemphasis on common sense law enforcement, regulation, economic policies, energy production, etc.

- Focus on productivity, optimism, and enthusiasm for the future through technology and traditional values (including family values).