Why we discuss M2C

Sometimes people ask why we continue to discuss M2C when everyone can see it is evaporating as more and more Latter-day Saints learn what the prophets have taught about the New York Cumorah/Ramah and all the corroborating evidence.

Although the end of M2C is coming, there are plenty of hold outs.

We thought it would be obvious to Latter-day Saints that there was no reason to reject the teachings of the prophets in the first place, but there was a lot of inertia because the M2Cers have had a few decades to promote their theories, to the point where most Latter-day Saints lost the knowledge about Cumorah, just as Brigham Young feared in 1877.

This sign from Macrohard kind of explains what is going on.

Dirkmaat and crew: "Joseph didn't say much..."

Another fun part of the "Informed Saints" video about the translation of the Book of Mormon is where they 

(i) admit people hear what they're expecting

(ii) claim Joseph didn't say "a while lot about" the translation

(iii) misquote what Joseph actually did say.

It's incredible that any informed Latter-day Saint believes what these scholars (and they're all awesome, faithful Latter-day Saints with good intentions) have to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiAx1CVPlc0

Look at these excerpts.

people hear sometimes what they're

10:06

expecting. 

This is a good description of confirmation bias, and this entire video is a prime example of confirmation bias. The people on this panel are either in denial or are oblivious to the reality that they are so obsessed with promoting SITH that they misquote, omit and mislead throughout.

And so, so we we try to get to what the actual sources say.

If only they would!

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In this case, with the translation of the Book of Mormon, our best primary source, our closest primary source, Joseph Smith,

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doesn't say a whole lot about it.

But what Joseph did say completely contradicts the SITH narrative, so Dirkmaat and crew do not quote or explain what Joseph Smith said. Instead, they ignore what Joseph wrote and instead misquote him, as here.

Now he he does in Joseph Smith history explain

10:27

you know what the the that the angel tells him right from the beginning that God has prepared two stones

10:34

That are going to be used in the translation uh that the that those stones are you know what constituted seers in ancient times.

They simply cannot quote Joseph referring to the Urim and Thummim. Compare that misleading paraphrase to what Joseph actually explained:

Joseph Smith History 1:35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book. . . .

JS-H 1:42 Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. 

For more, see https://www.mobom.org/translation-references

Misleading BYU students?

The recent video from the ironically named "Informed Saints" youtube channel suggests that professors at BYU are not educating their students about the facts regarding the translation of the Book of Mormon. Instead, they are misleading them to promote SITH (SITH = stone-in-the-hat theory)

The panel members in this video, like other SITH promoters, ignore the FAITH model and mingle their own assumptions, inferences and theories with actual facts so that it is difficult for people who are not fully aware of the facts to distinguish between the two categories.

My detailed response to the video will come out soon, but for now, here is an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiAx1CVPlc0

At the outset, we noted that the American Historical Association Standards for Professional Conduct include these standards. 

Professional integrity in the practice of history requires awareness of one’s own biases and a readiness to follow sound method and analysis wherever they may lead. Historians should document their findings and be prepared to make available their sources, evidence, and data, including any documentation they develop through interviews. Historians should not misrepresent their sources. They should report their findings as accurately as possible and not omit evidence that runs counter to their own interpretation.

Listeners can watch this video and see this panel create and attack straw men while omitting evidence that counters their interpretations. 

They come across as perfectly comfortable with their approach, as though they talk the same way in other settings--including classes at BYU.

Here is Gerrit Dirkmaat relating what he teaches his students in his religion classes at BYU

28:48

I was just rereading for my class on the Book of Mormon I'm teaching this semester, the accounts from Emma Smith and Martin Harris and Emma's accounts 

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especially are some of my favorites because to your point, she explicitly says, you know, my husband would put the 

29:04

stone in his hat and he would look at it and the words would appear and he would dictate hour after hour without any breaks or interruptions. 

Emma's "Last Testimony" is one of Gerrit's favorites, presumably because it confirms his SITH bias. 

We cannot tell from the video whether Gerrit explains to his students the credibility problems with the "Last Testimony" pursuant to the AHA standards, but seeing that this is one his "favorites," he surely relates the "Last Testimony" the same way he presented it in this video and in his books; i.e., as a completely credible account on its face.

Everyone who hears or reads Emma's "Last Testimony" should be aware of at least some of the relevant facts. Emma's son Joseph Smith III ("JS III") visited his mother in Nauvoo from February 4-10, 1879. This was 50 years after the translation took place. There is no known record of Emma relating these so-called details prior to this "Last Testimony."

JS III He recorded the questions and answers. JS III had prepared the questions in advance and avoided follow-up questions for more specificity, possibly in light of Emma's health. She died 10 weeks later on April 30, 1879 (age 74). The "Last Testimony" was published posthumously on Oct 1, 1879.  

In an 1886 article in the Saints' Herald reviewing the evidence about the translation, JS III did not even mention his mother's "Last Testimony." Instead, he relied on what Joseph and Oliver said all along. 

He also rejected the SITH statements from David Whitmer.

Consider this irony: while Joseph Smith III did not cite his own mother's "Last Testimony" as authoritative or even persuasive on how Joseph produced the Book of Mormon, modern SITH proponents such as Gerrit and the other panelists in this video cite the "Last Testimony" as conclusive evidence.

When Gerrit teaches his students about one of his "favorites," he does not have to explain the problems with the "Last Testimony." He does not have to do so when he does podcasts.

But no doubt his students and listeners trust him to do so. As do the professional standards of the AHA.

And we can all see that he does not do it.

For more problems with the "Last Testimony," see 

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2023/08/credibility-of-emma-smiths-last.html

Consider another irony. Among other problems with the "Last Testimony," it has Emma denying that Joseph practiced plural marriage. This generated considerable reaction in Utah at the time, with numerous people denouncing the "Last Testimony" as false, possibly not even Emma's actual statement, etc. Nevertheless, the "Last Testimony" is one of the ""favorites" among the polygamy deniers.

Most if not all LDS historians reject Emma's "Last Testimony" regarding plural marriage, but then SITH-promoting historians such as those on the panel in this video consider those parts of the "Last Testimony" as the gospel truth.

This intellectual schizophrenia is common among SITH scholars.

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Similar omissions of relevant facts are found throughout the video, which we will see next.

 

Cumorah confusion, Saints book errors, SITH

We live in fun times. 

I'm fine with people believing whatever they want, but people in positions of trust and responsibility have an obligation to be open, transparent, and accurate. They should separate facts from their assumptions, inferences, theories, and hypotheses (the FAITH model).

And they should pursue clarity, charity and understanding.

Instead, our SITH and M2C scholars continue to promote their theories by misleading their Latter-day Saint students and followers.

They keep repeating the same mantras as they seek to persuade Latter-day Saints to embrace their theories instead of what Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery taught. 

Lazy learners simply accept what these scholars say. But Latter-day Saints who accept responsibility for their own decisions and education can see how SITH and M2C 

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Saints book. Latter-day Saints around the world rely on the Saints book as their primary, and basically only, source of information about Church history. But volume 1 is replete with misinformation. 

For the first of several suggestions for improvement on the Saints books, see my comments here:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2025/09/improving-saints-example-1.html

M2C (the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory). The Hill Cumorah dedication has generated considerable online comments. Here is an example of the confusion and ignorance produced by our M2C scholars:

(click to enlarge)

As exemplified in these Instagram comments, few current Latter-day Saints know what Joseph, Oliver and their contemporaries taught about Cumorah. Joseph Smith and his contemporaries had no confusion about the Hill Cumorah. Everyone knew it was a fact that the hill where he found the plates was the same hill referred to in the text as Cumorah/Ramah.

But, as Brigham Young feared, this knowledge has been lost to modern generations, thanks to the efforts of the M2C scholars who have repudiated what Joseph, Oliver, and their contemporaries and successors taught.

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SITH. People have sent me links to an audacious SITH-promoting video by the usual suspects, now on a channel ironically called "Informed Saints." I'll have more detailed commentary in a few days.

Your jaw will drop when you watch the way they manipulate the historical sources in the guise of "following the sources."

Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiAx1CVPlc0

The video includes bragging about teaching these things to BYU students who are defenseless against the onslaught of SITH and M2C.

In my opinion, this is shameful. People can believe whatever they want, but it would be more useful for BYU professors to teach facts and then let students make informed decisions instead of promoting their own theories by omitting facts that contradict their theories--facts such as what Joseph and Oliver explicitly taught.

Stay tuned.

Countdown to Cumorah - September 2025

Some readers here don't know about my blog on Cumorah on www.lettervii.com.

On that blog, we're doing a countdown to the rededication of the Hill Cumorah in New York on September 21st. 

Check it out.

A tribute to Charlie Kirk

I posted this here:

https://dailyjonathanedwards.blogspot.com/2025/09/charlie-kirk-and-other-saints.html

But I'm cross-posting it here.

For Charlie Kirk and everyone else who has been murdered, this is an excerpt from the funeral address for David Brainerd, by Jonathan Edwards:

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As if he had said, 

"This is not the time and place for that freedom, your love to me desires: that is appointed in heaven, after my ascension. I am going thither: and you that are my true disciples, shall, as my brethren and companions, soon be there with me in my glory. 

And then there shall be no restraint. 

That is the place appointed for the most perfect expressions of complacence and endearment, and full enjoyment of mutual love." 

And accordingly the souls of departed saints with Christ in heaven, shall have Christ as it were unbosomed unto them, manifesting those infinite riches of love towards them, that have been there from eternity: and they shall be enabled to express their love to him, in an infinitely better manner than ever they could while in the body. 

Thus they shall eat and drink abundantly, and swim in the ocean of love, and be eternally swallowed up in the infinitely bright, and infinitely mild and sweet beams of divine love; eternally receiving that light, eternally full of it, and eternally compassed round with it, and everlastingly reflecting it back again to the fountain of it.

http://edwards.yale.edu/archive?path=aHR0cDovL2Vkd2FyZHMueWFsZS5lZHUvY2dpLWJpbi9uZXdwaGlsby9nZXRvYmplY3QucGw/Yy4yNDoxNC53amVvLjY4MDQ4My42ODA0ODg=

End of M2C, blog purpose and Church History conference

The end of M2C is accelerating as more and more Latter-day Saints make informed decisions.

I'm fine with people believing whatever they want, but every scholar owes it to readers to provide all the relevant facts. That's why I urge people to use the FAITH model, which separates facts from assumptions, inferences, theories, and hypotheses.

The purpose of this blog parallels what Elon Musk is doing with Grok:

ELON MUSK: Grok uses massive inference compute to scan the corpus of human knowledge - books, PDFs, websites, detecting falsehoods, fixing half-truths, and adding missing context. “It’s like rewriting Wikipedia, but accurate.”

The scholars who promote M2C and SITH consistently omit important, relevant context, including fundamental historical records and extrinsic evidence. But their monopoly over LDS scholarship has eroded to the point where even ordinary Latter-day Saints like me can learn what they've tried to suppress for so long.

Basically, like many other Latter-day Saints, I believe Joseph and Oliver told the truth about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon. Their teachings are explicit, unambiguous, and consistent. Plus their teachings are corroborated by extrinsic evidence.

Recently people have asked me to apply the FAITH model to more of the M2C/SITH narratives. Regular readers of this blog can do that for themselves because they have the information that most Latter-day Saints do not have.

One ongoing project is organizing the content of these blogs to make them more accessible. Details coming.

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The Church History Department sponsored an exceptional conference on Sept 5-6, 2025. The theme was  "I Am in Your Midst" Jesus Christ at the Center of Church History.

https://churchhistory.cventevents.com/event/2025conference/speakers

I commented on the conference here with some suggestions for improvement next time:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2025/09/church-history-conference-sept-2025.html

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An excellent summary by Jacob Hess was published in the Deseret News:

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/09/07/jesus-christ-at-the-center-of-church-history/

The byline: 

An exclusive focus on human struggle in the past misses the most important action taking place, say historians with the Church of Jesus Christ

I completely agree with that byline and the theme of the conference. I'm incorporating that theme into my presentations and publications going forward, and I hope everyone else does as well.

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