Dirkmaat, Givens, Harper and Jonathan Edwards

It's good to see the attention people are paying to Jonathan Edwards lately. In addition to public podcasts, articles, etc., I've had several private conversations on the topic.

From my perspective, the influence of Edwards on Joseph Smith is apparent, as I discussed in a preliminary way in my book Infinite Goodness. We're adding more information to the Edwards page on Mobom.org, here:

https://www.mobom.org/jonathan-edwards

I see this influence as part of the Lord's preparation of young Joseph Smith to become a translator, revelator, and prophet.

As President Nelson has taught, "Good inspiration is based upon good information."

The narrative of Joseph Smith as an ignorant farm boy who ushered in the Restoration by saying a prayer out loud contradicts Joseph's own 1832 history. The Lord prepared Joseph from a young age. He was a religious seeker who applied himself to the scriptures and had an "intimate acquaintance with those of different denominations."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-summer-1832/2 

In my view, the influence of Edwards corroborates Joseph's claim that he translated the plates (instead of merely reading words that appeared on a stone in the hat), that he received revelations "after the manner of his language," and that he sought "out of the best books words of wisdom."

This understanding of Joseph Smith is an example to each of us who are religious seekers. We all need to study for ourselves and hear the voice of God in our own language.

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There is an unfortunate thread among some LDS scholars, however. They have taught caricatures of Jonathan Edwards, framing him as teaching a false Christianity that contradicts the Restoration.

I posted an example of this here:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2025/03/dirkmaat-and-jonathan-edwards.html

Hopefully in the future LDS scholars will be more careful and accurate as we explore Edwards' influence on the Restoration.

Me, Welch, Peterson, Dirkmaat, Dehlin, Griffin, etc.

From time to time people ask me how my approach differs from the well-known LDS scholars, critics, podcasters, pundits, etc.

I answer that there are two frameworks that I use that they do not seem to agree with, as discussed below. 

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1. Clarity, charity and understanding. 

In my work, I pursue these three objectives. I start with clarity because so much disagreement arises from the lack of clarity. If everyone is crystal clear about what they believe and advocate, we can all make informed decisions. Charity is important because we can all assume everyone acts in good faith. And seeking understanding instead of persuasion is a key to avoiding contention, arrogance, credentialism, and other errors.

Everyone who pursues clarity, charity and understanding welcomes comparisons of different perspectives because that's how we achieve clarity, charity and understanding. 

We can all see that leading LDS scholars and critics avoid comparisons of different perspectives. Scripture Central is notorious for refusing to engage in open dialog and comparisons of different perspectives about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon, but the Interpreter, Mormon Stories, and other content creators also avoid making comparisons to enable people to make informed decisions.

In many cases, LDS scholars and critics don't even disclose all the relevant information, which leads to the second framework.

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2. The FAITH model.

The model is simple. 

Everyone should be able to agree on the Facts. This is axiomatic, but there is tremendous resistance from LDS scholars and critics on this point.

The reasons seems to be a misunderstanding of the difference between a fact and an assumption, inference, and theory.

It's easy to see the difference. The existence of an historical document, say a letter, is a fact. The content of the letter is a fact. Everyone can agree on these.

Whether the content of the letter is factual, however, is a separate matter. Sometimes the content can be corroborated, but even then, corroboration involves assumptions, inferences, and theories. 

This is why the FAITH model separates Facts from Assumptions, Inferences, and Theories. When we isolate these elements for inspection and analysis, we can see how different people arrive at different overall Hypotheses or worldviews, and then we can make informed decisions about which set of Assumptions, Inferences, and Theories make the most sense to us.

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One of the best examples of the FAITH model is in the New Testament.

A group of people observed Christ and heard what he taught. 

 19 ¶ There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

 20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

 21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

(John 10:19–21)

Both groups had the identical facts before them. But they reached completely opposite conclusions because of their respective assumptions, inferences, and theories. 

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Over the last few years, I've had a variety of interactions with some LDS scholars and critics. Others have refused to even meet or have a conversation.

I welcome engagement and dialog with anyone, which few LDS scholars or critics do. Which is very strange to me, but seems to follow from their insecurity and defensiveness.

MOBOM content

When people ask me questions, I usually just send a link to a page on the Museum of the Book of Mormon site.

https://www.mobom.org/home

MOBOM exists to help people everywhere become familiar with the Book of Mormon an make informed decisions for themselves.

We have sections on the Origins, Teachings, and Evidences of the Book of Mormon. And we regularly update content based on feedback from a variety of people, including critics. 

For example, we recently updated the one on the Urim and Thummim in 1832.

https://www.mobom.org/urim-and-thummim-in-1832

We regularly add annotated chapters and sections:

https://www.mobom.org/jonathan-edwards

Look at all the topics we cover just on Church history issues:

https://www.mobom.org/church-history-issues

Topics related to the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon

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Origin of the Book of Mormon (translation)

The History of SITH: 1829-2024

Urim and Thummim in 1832

Urim and Thummim in LDS General Conference

U&T vs Seer Stone in Rough Stone Rolling

Translation references

Gospel Topics Essay on Book of Mormon Translation

Oliver returning to the Church-Reuben Miller journal

Words of Mormon analysis

Emma Smith's "Last Testimony"

Origin of SITH (stone-in-the-hat)

Truman Coe account (explains how U&T worked)

Setting of the Book of Mormon (geography)

Cumorah overview

Two sets of plates explanation

Trip to Fayette references

BYU-CES packet on Cumorah

Two departments in the hill Cumorah

Orson Pratt's 1879 footnotes in the Book of Mormon

Moroni and Nephi clarified

Zelph account

Rationality comparison chart - Cumorah

Wentworth letter vs Orson Pratt pamphlet

Letter IV in Joseph Smith Papers (written and deposited in New York)

Letter VII in Joseph Smith Papers (fact that Cumorah is in New York)

1835 letter by Joseph Smith in the Messenger and Advocate

Cumorah photos

President Ivins on the New York Cumorah

Cumorah's Cave by Cameron Packer

Brigham Young on the New York Cumorah

Narrow and small necks and other geographical terms

Ancient People Joseph Knew

Benjamin Benson letter to Joseph Smith

John Sorenson's Sourcebook Annotated

Origin and rationale of M2C (Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory)

Oliver was truthful except...

Mormonism Unvailed: 1834 to 2023

Chiasmus and parallelism: a chiastic geography

Ancient Manti in Missouri

Scripture Central: Kno-Whys

Latter-day Prophets on the Promise Land

Only an Elder

The 20/60/20 principle: SITH and U&T

In the pursuit of clarity, charity and understanding, we all seek to eliminate contention (nomorecontention.com). In this post, we'll discuss multiple working hypotheses by seeing how Latter-day Saints group themselves according to their beliefs. 

There is no need for anyone to feel compelled to "convert" others to their own perspectives and interpretations. 

Through clarity and charity, we can all simply understand one another and live in harmony as we seek to live and share the Gospel.

But clarity is often the hard part.

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Latter-day Saints around the world recently reviewed the translation of the Book of Mormon during their Come Follow Me study. Numerous podcasts, articles, and blogs promoted SITH (the stone-in-the-hat narrative), leading many Latter-day Saints to wonder, what's going on?

Obviously Church leaders want us all to avoid contention about the topic. One way to do this is to teach that it doesn't matter how Joseph produced the Book of Mormon, so don't worry or even think about the historical sources. Let's just say we don't know, or that Joseph used both SITH and the Urim and Thummim.

That's probably an acceptable approach for many, if not most, Latter-day Saints who have busy lives and frankly don't care about the historical sources and the ongoing controversies about the translation. Let's say 60% of LDS are in that middle ground.

The problem with this approach is obvious in the curriculum, the Gospel Topics essays, and other media. To promote SITH, these materials simply ignore what Joseph and Oliver taught and the relevant scriptures, leaving Latter-day Saints uninformed. Sort of an "ignorance is bliss" approach that, in the long term, can cause cognitive dissonance when people eventually learn what Joseph and Oliver taught.

There are 40% of LDS who do care about the historical sources, the claims of critics and scholars, etc. 

Everyone can agree on the facts, consisting of specific statements by Joseph and Oliver regarding the Urim and Thummim vs specific statement by others who promoted SITH. We can all see that the two narratives contradict one another, just as Mormonism Unvailed set forth in 1834. 

E.g., https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/the-sith-problem-1829-2024.html

[Some LDS scholars try to reconcile the contradictions by claiming the Joseph and Oliver were referring to the seer stone when they said "Urim and Thummim," but we can all see this is a ruse that contradicts what Joseph, Oliver, David, Emma and other said.]

With the facts clearly spelled out, we can all see that differences of opinion arise from different assumptions, inferences, and theories. (This is the FAITH model of analysis.)

Of the 40% who care about the historical sources, about half, or 20%, follow the SITH scholars, such as those at Scripture Central, and agree with Royal Skousen that Joseph and Oliver intentionally misled everyone about the translation, presumably because they were "embarrassed" about the seer stone.

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/2024/09/the-embarrassed-narrative-and-sith.html

https://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2024/11/thank-you-royal-skousen.html

The other 20% (including me) reject the SITH scholars and stick with what Joseph and Oliver said. This group has multiple working hypotheses to explain SITH. Some say the SITH witnesses were lying. Others (including me) say the SITH witnesses were not lying, but they observed a demonstration Joseph conducted (because he could not show the actual U&T or the plates) and they used the demonstration as an apologetic argument against the Spalding theory. 

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I like the 20/60/20 principle because it explains, in general terms, many social, political, and religious divisions. 

But we don't have to think of this as "division" in the Church. 

We just have different assumptions, inferences, and theories.

And so long as we are clear about our views, and all rely on the full facts, it's all good.

SITH videos and "You get what you pay for"

You get what you pay for.

A recent post on X summarized the ongoing prevalence of racism in society:

If your job is to 'find racism', you'll eventually become a race alchemist who creates racism out of thin air.

Likewise,  "if your job is to "find Mesoamerica in the Book of Mormon, you'll eventually become an M2C alchemist who creates the Mesoamerican setting out of thin air."

Because Scripture Central has become the predominant, if not the exclusive, source of funding for LDS students and graduates who want to pursue Book of Mormon studies and apologetics, and because Scripture Central requires employees, volunteers, and recipients of funding to promote M2C and SITH, we have a generation of M2C and SITH alchemists who create "evidence" for M2C and SITH.

SITH videos.

The M2C and SITH alchemists are omnipresent on social media. They seem to get zero pushback from the hosts, which is amazing. Instead, the hosts defer to and promote the M2C and SITH narratives. 

Lots of people have asked me to respond to these, to at least provide an alternative narrative that corroborates and supports the teachings of the prophets about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon.

For fun, as an experiment, I posted a draft video recently to elicit feedback. The feedback has been helpful, but because I'm traveling I can't make changes for a while, nor can I post additional episodes. But rather than wait until I've done all of that, I thought readers here might be interested to see what is coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIokpuGRjKc 

Email comments to lostzarahemla@gmail.com

The Scripture Central problem

Obviously, I'd prefer to have an open dialog with the M2C and SITH proponents. All of these podcasters and content producers owe it to their viewers and followers to facilitate such dialog and conversation, but with few exceptions, they refuse.

From my perspective, the main obstacle to open dialog is Scripture Central. 

Scripture Central directly funds some podcasters and creates its own content. They host seminars and meetings with podcasters and influencers. 

But Scripture Central management is adamantly opposed to open dialog and diversity of opinions.

In the pursuit of clarity, charity, and understanding, we cannot avoid discussing an obvious point about the current state of Book of Mormon studies.

Scripture Central continues to spend millions of dollars annually, partly to promote awareness of the Book of Mormon and other scriptures (which is productive), but also partly to promote the personal opinions of the organization's founders and management; i.e., M2C (the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory) and SITH (the stone-in-the-hat theory).

Both M2C and SITH explicit reject what Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon.

There are few Latter-day Saints who, when they learn what the prophets have taught about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon, immediately conclude that the prophets were wrong.

It takes a lot of effort to persuade Latter-day Saints that the prophets were wrong. It requires persuading Latter-day Saints that modern scholars know more about the origin and setting of the Book of Mormon than Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery did.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

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Here's the post that prompted this post:

Eric Abbenante

@EricAbbenante

Coleman Hughes brilliantly depicts how DEI programs do not reduce but exacerbate racism: Coleman Hughes: "They decided to give a cash reward for every person who brought in a dead snake, thinking that, you know, two plus two equals four, all the dead snakes will be gone. Turns out if you give a cash reward for dead snakes, people will breed snakes and kill them and start snake farms. There are way more snakes at the end of this dumb program than there were at the beginning. That's kind of like what DEI Bureaucracies are. So everything that seems like it's tamping down on the problem is actually exacerbating it." If your job is to 'find racism', you'll eventually become a race alchemist who creates racism out of thin air.

https://x.com/EricAbbenante/status/1892358714864390464

Perplexity AI explains two sets of plates

We still need to work on SITH, but at least Perplexity AI understands there were two separate sets of plates that Joseph translated.

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/how-many-sets-of-plates-did-jo-MNleUGssR0.L35LU06oUcQ

How did Joseph Smith's translation process differ between the two sets of plates

Answer

Historical accounts suggest the translation process for the Book of Mormon involved Joseph Smith using seer stones and dictating the text to scribes14. Smith would put a seer stone in his hat, place his face in the hat to exclude the light, and then read off the characters as he claimed to see them2. The scribe would repeat the words back as they were written, and if they were correct, the stone would change to the next word or line of text2. The gold plates were not used during the translation process2.

There were two sets of plates translated5:

•  These plates contained an abridgment of the large plates of Nephi5. Joseph Smith translated all of these plates (except the sealed portion) in Harmony, PA, with Oliver Cowdery as the scribe5.

•  A messenger brought the Small Plates of Nephi from the repository in the Hill Cumorah to Fayette, NY5. Joseph then translated 1 Nephi through Words of Mormon5.

Some accounts indicate that the Urim and Thummim were used for the first part of the translation, but after the loss of the original manuscript, Smith used a small, dark-colored stone1. Still, the Lord states that Joseph Smith translated by the means of the Urim and Thummim7.

The accounts vary, but a common description is that Joseph Smith placed his seer stone in a hat, stuck his face in the hat, and read off the characters as he claimed to see them2. Some believe the process differed slightly from scribe to scribe4.